exactly that

Wednesday Whedon Moment

B/c I had “stuff” last week, I owe you one!

So, a special two-fer this week, and then I have to make enchiladas.

First, Angel sings “Mandy”.  Classic!


Second, from the season that went horribly and inexcusably wrong, I bring you Angel and Connor singing “Mandy”.  Sort of.




Comments on: "Wednesday Whedon Moment" (11)

  1. Not a fan of season 4… I get that. I know what Joss was trying to do with the Jasmine thing– make some sort of statement about religion but I didn’t really enjoy it much. We should talk about it :)

  2. strange little factoid…the story arch of season four had to be altered b/c Charisma Carpenter was actually pregnant and didn’t let anyone know (as the story goes) until it was too late to hide and too late to write around it. So, Jasmine. The story arc was a little too all over the place for my taste. It is my least favorite season, and yes, we should talk about it sometime. The way they blindly follow her knowing nothing at all about it. I didn’t even really think about that at all.

    Damnit, that man is a genius.

    Plus, I love seeing other Whedonverse characters show up doing things in other Whedonverse shows. Ala Adam Baldwin in late season five Angel (which you should be about to, now, or passed), Nathan Fillion in Season 7 of Buffy, and now Jasmine (whose name escapes me, she was also on an episode of either L&O or one of the CSI’s, maybe Bones. Can’t remember).

    Email me if you have thoughts that you want to pick apart w/ me. B/c I actually used to be a Christian I am well versed and abnormally fair to the religion (when I want to be), but like all things, I play my bullshit card when I see fit.

  3. Yeah. I just figured.. knowing Joss seems to have a distate for religion (I heard him once refer to God as the “sky bully”) that this was some kind of statement that blind worship of this perfect, peace-making person can be dangerous. As in people willing to murder those who “just can’t appreciate her love.” Course in this case Jasmine was all about the murdering of non-followers but then again, Old Testament God was all about wiping out his competition too. I rememeber in youth group talking about the story where Elijah (I think… er, I haven’t been in church for a long time) challenged the followers of Ba’al on the mountaintop to a “Who’s God is better contest” and the Ba’al people of course do everything but can’t get a reaction and then Elijah gets a lightning strike from God and THEY WIN. And God tells his followers to kill all the Ba’al people. Charming, right?

    Then there’s the whole bit where when Fred awakens the others to the lie they are honestly depressed because now they are ‘alone’ again. I don’t know saw it as a larger story detailing loss of faith– I read Christian, probably because that’s how I was raised. And the idea that Gods who use death and destruction to maintain order are really just bullies and evil.

    I did NOT know Charisma hid her pregnancy that long. And I don’t get HOW because for ALL of season 4 and the end of season 3 you can kinda tell. She is normally so small and her face, hips, butt all get a little rounder and you can just tell. But then again, who would want to ask — are you pregnant or just gaining weight? That’s an EVIL question. I wonder what the arc WOULD have been?

    I just don’t like season 4 because Cordy is so evil and weird and Conner is so distressed and unhappy. It’s just a little too dark for too long for me. And although I love the woman who plays Jasmine, that is not my favorite ‘baddie’ so to speak from Angel history.

    Okay, your turn :)

  4. Tobes now that you remind me of Fred being the one that awakened first something hit me. The scientifically inclined member of the group was the first to bee awakened. And after that (and maybe its just me) but I think after the others were awakened they seemed to take it alot harder than Fred. Perhaps implying that her faith in science cushioned the blow for her?

    So hiding the pregnancy was the reason for Charisma being at odds with the crew? Didn’t know that. And that would explain why that Jasmine arc felt rushed. I love Gina Torres (the actress that played Jasmine) to death but compared to other all powerful entities she is definitely no Glorificus. And what they did with Connor was SUCH a waste…

    If there is going to be some Angel discussion you have to share with the class!

    And since we are talking about Angel I have quote a certain trio of witches:


  5. Gina Torres! Thank-you Danny, b/c it was bugging me but my laziness has overwhelmed me.

    Perhaps implying that her faith in science cushioned the blow for her?

    I remember thinking that when I watched it, but I haven’t watched Angel all the way through in a couple of years. How sad! Fred’s questioning mind was ultimately her saving grace, I think (and arguably, her downfall, but I think that is more the “consequences of other people’s actions I talked about w/ the clip about Dana).

    No, you are right, the arc was rushed, definitely not the best (FTR, Glorificus is my all time favorite) Big Bad. The affair b/t Connor and Cordy upset me sooooooooo very much, especially after the way the previous season had ended. We all know that Angel can never “get the girl”, but do we always have to rub his face in it? Not like Nina (whom I am not sure I liked), whom Wesley points out would probably never be “perfect happiness”, I think Cordy (as we see at the end of season 4) could have been bad news…back on liquid lunch and all that. I understand why Angel made the choice he did w/ Connor, but the getting there was awful. I was on board w/ how the hell a Vamp is supposed to raise a baby, but after that it all went south.

    Yes, I will criticize Joss when I think it needs to be done. Season 4 was a train wreck. The last cool thing that happened was when Darla staked herself, and nothing was cool until Faith opened a can of whoop ass and doped her own blood.

    5,000 points, Danny. I forgot about the witches!

  6. PS, the comments don’t show links. The word “Dana” in my last comment is a link.

    I have got to figure this new theme out.

  7. I could never get over the major ook factor of Cordy and Conner getting it on. The only good that came out of that was the hilarious line when Angelus is taunting Conner from his cage, “Son trying to kill the father and screw the mother…. there should be a play.”

    I never realized before that Fred was the most scientific and also the first to see Jasmine’s true face. However, she does say that she cried a lot about it and before she shoots Jasmine she says, “I loved you so much.” If it’s a tale about losing faither — it’s a heartbreaking one.

    I could never figure out at the end of season 4 if it was sad that Angel killed her or not. Beause Lilah made that big speech that Jasmine would have ushered in World Peace (even though the price was eating followers). It was a mixed bag. Even the Angel crew seemed torn with the decision of sending the world back into chaos.

    So wait a sec — Cordy was “at odds” with cast and crew that season? I sooo want more details :)

  8. PS to Ouyang Dan- -you are right on in the ‘ripple’ theory. I never realized just how perfect an example Dana is!

  9. Mind you Tobes I only heard this in forums and chat rooms but apparently Carpenter has some sort of issues with Whedon and the crew of the show. I didn’t know she was pregnant but now that Ouyang has mentioned that I think it possible that the cause of said falling out was the fact that Carpenter was pregnant and hid until it was too late for Whedon to properly work around it.

  10. That was the same info from basically the same sources that I am working w/, Danny and Tobes. Unfortunately I didn’t read things like Whedonesque back then, I only have what I heard. It makes sense…why else would she leave the show after so long in such a crappy manner? She hid it as long as possible, then they did, then they worked it in (albeit, horribly IMNSFHO) as best they could (mind you, Whedon is NOT the only writer on the show). I don’t know what the issues are or were, but she came back for episode 100, and it was full of win. She might be the one exception to the rule “in the Whedonverse you work more after you die”.

    I see that whole season as a look at religion, morality, faith, and a number of other topics I am hoping to discuss w/ this week’s coming edition (which is taking a little technical savvy). There is a scene early in S4 where Connor is born that is heavy w/ religious (Christian) imagery, stark in comparison w/ the content of the show (Fred looks like the Virgin Mary in one shot, and it is a pretty powerful scene).

  11. I am a total nerd that I’m bummed about Charisma not getting along with Joss/crew? I love those shows so much and I really grow the like the actors and I just like the idea that they’re this big happy family (a la Firefly cast or something) — makes the show even more enjoyable. But that was a weird way for Cordy to go out. I just thank the heavens that they brought her back for “Your Welcome” for the proper send off. Because they made her a psycho pregnant pedophile type person in my opinion… I’d be ticked too :) Yeah, in general season 4 was just mehhhhhhhhhh.

    I really wonder why Charisma Carpenter’s acting career hasn’t flourished more. She is just sublimely beautiful and can really act in my opinion…. but she hasn’t really gone mainstream and other than a hugely underwritten Veronica Mars role, I haven’t seen her do anything as good as Cordelia.

    I never thought about the Christian iconography of the Conner birth but it’s def. there. The ‘impossible’ birth, fleeing those that would hard him… prophesied that he would destroy a demon… wow. I just want to take some big nerdy college course on Joss shows and do this all day!

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